In the first episode of this year’s HR Digitalization Podcast, we meet Daniel Edenholm, founder of the HR-tech company Sysarb, to discuss the upcoming EU directive on pay transparency and its effects on employers, managers, and employees in Sweden. The directive, which must be implemented by June 2026, aims to create fair pay through increased transparency and clearer rules around salary setting.
The directive will bring significant changes, especially for managers who need to prepare to handle the transparency requirements. Job seekers will have the right to know the salary range for a position before salary negotiations, and it will be prohibited to ask about previous salaries. For employees, the right to access pay structures for equivalent roles will be introduced, which is expected to reduce unjustified pay disparities.
By embracing transparency and fairness, organizations can not only meet legal requirements but also build a stronger culture of trust, engagement, and long-term success. It’s a journey that requires courage, structure, and clear leadership – but in the end, it can lead to better workplaces for everyone.
Note: This episode is in Swedish. A translated transcript is available below.
Transcription podcast:
Anna Carlsson: Welcome to the first episode of 2025! Emira and I have had some time off, but now it's time to inspire you with new episodes again. And as you may hear, we have a new intro together with Emira.
Today, we’ll be discussing the Pay Transparency Directive and the upcoming legislation in Sweden with Daniel Edenholm, founder of Sysarb. This is a law that will significantly impact our organizations. And as Daniel points out, it will primarily affect managers, but also all employees—and really, everyone living in Sweden or Europe—as we work towards fair wages and transparency. For this, we truly need to prepare.
As of today, when this episode is released, it’s less than a year and a half until all the rules come into effect. We examine this topic from all perspectives and, towards the end, delve into the role of data and digitalization, which are now becoming essential. But before that, we discuss everything from the winners to global trends and what this means for everyone involved.
Anna Carlsson: Welcome to the HR Digitalization Podcast! Daniel and Emira are here. As usual—or is it usual?
Daniel Edenholm: Thank you so much!
Anna Carlsson: Today, we’re tackling a topic that feels incredibly important for many in HR—the Pay Transparency Directive. I find all these EU regulations fascinating, as they guide us in a certain direction. So, I hope we can explore that today. What do you think?
Daniel Edenholm: That sounds great!
Anna Carlsson: But first, could you introduce yourself? I’m sure many know who you are, but let’s hear it from you.
Daniel Edenholm: My name is Daniel Edenholm, and I’m the founder of Sysarb, an HR tech company that helps employers set fair wages, ensuring employees receive equitable compensation. We provide a clear foundation for how salaries are set and how they are communicated—and salary communication is exactly what the Pay Transparency Directive is about.
I started this company in 2005, so it’s been quite a few years now.
Anna Carlsson: When this airs, it will be 20 years since you started!
Daniel Edenholm: That’s really cool! This summer marks Sysarb’s 20th anniversary.
I’ve been working on this since then. Before that, I had a background in salary and negotiation matters, representing employers in collective bargaining and union discussions, with a strong focus on pay structures.
Anna Carlsson: That makes me curious—what led you to start the company? What was the original idea?
Daniel Edenholm: In 2001, Swedish legislation regarding pay equity and salary mapping was strengthened. At the time, I was working for Eskilstuna Municipality, a large employer, and like many others, they were asking, "How do we do this?"
It became clear that we needed to systematize HR data and salary structures. I worked on this for several years before a consulting firm approached me in 2003 and asked if I wanted to focus on this full-time. I took the opportunity, and after a few years as a consultant, I realized: Why not build a platform for this?
I had been working with Excel macros for large employers, but I knew there had to be a better way. So, I handed over my Excel sketches to a development company, and they coded the first version of the Sysarb platform.
Anna Carlsson: Are you still involved with Sysarb today?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes! I was CEO for 18 years, but I recently handed over that role to Oscar, our current CEO. Now, I focus on business development, working part-time, as I’m also involved in several other digitalization and HR-related projects.
Anna Carlsson: That sounds exciting—a bit more flexibility?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, definitely! A more flexible lifestyle.
Emira Blomberg: That’s well deserved after 18 years as CEO! I really admire founders like you who build long-term, sustainable businesses rather than rushing to sell them off. It’s rare in today’s fast-paced world. I imagine so much has changed over the past 20 years!
Daniel Edenholm: Oh, absolutely! When people talk about business growth, they often imagine a straight path to success—but in reality, it’s filled with twists and turns. However, what has kept us going is that we’re working towards a higher purpose—creating a more equitable labor market.
It’s amazing to think that we go to work every day and contribute to fairer working conditions. Some people assume I work on the union side, but actually, we work on behalf of employers. Of course, legislation and EU regulations drive this, but at the end of the day, employers want fair conditions and don’t want to discriminate.
Anna Carlsson: It’s not really a Swedish thing to do, is it?
Daniel Edenholm: I’ve never met a single manager who says, "I want to pay women less than men."
Anna Carlsson: But somehow, it still happens!
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly. That’s why we need clear structures, data-driven insights, and the right models. And that’s where our platform and consultants come in.
Emira Blomberg: Anna, as someone with a long HR background, would you say that Compensation & Benefits is one of the most challenging HR areas?
I’ve noticed that many HR professionals and managers may be skilled in some aspects of HR, but Comp & Ben is always seen as difficult. Even when I worked in recruitment, finding a specialist in compensation was incredibly hard because the field is so complex. Or is it really that complex?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, it’s a complex area, but it can be simplified. That’s something we focus on—making the complex understandable and breaking down the challenges.
Anna Carlsson: It’s unfortunate because compensation and benefits are a huge part of what employers offer their employees. It’s critical to understand and discuss these aspects. But I often get the sense that many managers don’t really grasp it.
For example, my most-read LinkedIn post this year was about salary-setting practices. I questioned why we still base salaries on previous earnings, which reinforces existing wage gaps.
I once worked with a company that had internal discussions on this. Many managers admitted, "Yes, we just ask candidates what they earned before." And I thought, "Absolutely not!" Employers should have their own salary structure instead of perpetuating past inequalities.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly! That’s actually a key element of the new directive—employers will no longer be allowed to ask about salary history during recruitment.
Why? Because we know that women still earn less than men in many cases. If we continue basing salaries on past wages, those gaps will persist. Instead, salaries should be determined by the employer’s pay structure—not by what a previous employer paid.
Anna Carlsson: Let’s dive into this new legislation. You mentioned that Sweden introduced a pay equity law in 2001—where does this new EU directive fit in?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, in 1994, the first Swedish regulation on pay surveys was introduced, and in 2001 it was tightened.
Anna Carlsson: We have a foundation to build on.
Daniel Edenholm: Absolutely.
Anna Carlsson: And now the EU is stepping in, and I understand that this must be more or less difficult for different countries and employers. Can you explain what this legislation is about?
Daniel Edenholm: We can start by describing what a directive is. A directive is a political agreement within the EU where it has been decided that "these are the requirements we impose on each country in the EU."
This new EU directive on pay transparency states that by June 2026, all EU countries must have enacted laws regulating the right to pay transparency and insight into wage setting. So, that is what the directive is—a minimum standard.
Daniel Edenholm: May 9, 2024.
Anna Carlsson: Exactly, it's important to be precise.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly. On that date, the Swedish investigation into a new law proposal, based on the directive, was presented. This is the investigator's proposal, outlining how Sweden should work with the issue of pay transparency and wage-setting insight. The government’s investigator has put forward a proposal, which is now under review. Consultation bodies have responded, and currently, work is likely underway to develop a formal legislative proposal.
So, what does this law proposal contain? It includes an update to the Discrimination Act. All new regulations will be incorporated into the existing Discrimination Act, which will gain a new chapter titled "Insight into Wage Setting and Pay Surveys."
The framework we have had in Sweden since 1994, with documented requirements since 2001, forms the foundation. This is how Sweden is implementing the directive. Pay surveys have been a method used here for a long time, so they are not new. However, for countries that have not had mandatory pay surveys, this is a major change. They will need to start documenting, grouping employees by equal and equivalent work, and creating structures—something Sweden has been doing for over 20 years.
While the pay survey requirement remains, the newest element is wage-setting insight, which will apply to several different stakeholders.
For example, job applicants will have the right to know the expected salary range for a position before negotiating their salary. This is meant to create a more balanced negotiation process. There are no rules eliminating individual salaries, but before negotiations, the applicant must be informed of the minimum and maximum salary for the position.
Anna Carlsson: It then depends on who is being hired. Otherwise, it can be difficult to gain insight—especially for newcomers to Sweden—into what salary they should ask for. The situation varies among different employers.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: This will be incredibly challenging.
Daniel Edenholm: The law does not specify how this information should be provided—only that it must be provided. It could be included in job advertisements, meaning we will likely see many job postings listing a desired salary range. Alternatively, the information must be given before salary negotiations begin.
Why has such a rule been introduced? Because women tend to ask for lower salaries than men during negotiations. Providing more knowledge ensures fairer salaries when starting a new position. The law also prohibits asking about a candidate's previous salary.
For current employees, wage-setting insight will be revolutionary for many employers. Employees will have the right to ask their employer what their colleagues with similar job responsibilities earn. The employer must disclose this information at a group level, not an individual level. The data already exists in pay surveys, so employees will be able to see whether they earn more or less than their colleagues.
Anna Carlsson: That will be stressful.
Daniel Edenholm: Absolutely.
Anna Carlsson: I have to share a story. I worked at IBM for many years. When I became a manager and gained access to salary review systems, I suddenly saw a lot of statistics, including salary ranges and positioning. I realized where I stood compared to my colleagues, and it wasn’t pleasant.
Being a woman in a male-dominated industry, I had worked my way up. At the same time, IBM was working on correcting disparities, which was costly because, as far as I know, you can’t lower salaries.
Daniel Edenholm: No, salaries cannot be reduced unless an employee is terminated. Salary is part of the employment contract. If allowed by a collective agreement, some employees’ salary growth might be slowed to allocate funds for others’ raises. However, unions will likely argue that pay disparities cannot be corrected through standard salary revisions alone, meaning this could lead to increased costs.
Anna Carlsson: How will unions respond to this? Will they have any insight?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, they are a third stakeholder. But before discussing unions, it's worth noting that employees will also gain more insight into the employer’s salary model—how salaries are determined.
Emira Blomberg: That might be even more challenging.
Anna Carlsson: Yes.
Emira Blomberg: Employees come in with different salary histories, negotiation skills, etc. What factors will employers need to disclose?
Daniel Edenholm: Many employers already have a salary policy document outlining their values and salary-setting criteria. A key part of salary determination is job evaluation—the complexity of the job affects salary levels. Employers must explain how they assess different roles in relation to each other.
To do this, companies must establish a job evaluation system or job architecture, defining different career levels. Employees will need access to this structure to understand their position and salary in comparison to others.
Emira Blomberg: That involves responsibility, how responsibility is valued, and when performance comes into play.
Daniel Edenholm: In addition to responsibility, knowledge and skills are also major factors. These, along with work environment and effort, are key components in job evaluation.
Beyond job complexity, employees may have different salaries based on performance. Some employees might work faster or have more experience, which is also a criterion in some companies. For example, in the first few years, salary might increase based on experience, and after a certain period, it depends entirely on individual performance.
The transparency directive emphasizes that salaries don’t have to be identical, but they must be justifiable.
Another challenging factor is the labor market itself—supply and demand affect salaries significantly.
Anna Carlsson: How will this play out in the future? If someone was hired 10 years ago when demand for their skills was lower, that can cause frustration.
Daniel Edenholm: That phenomenon is called the "hammock effect"—new hires get high salaries, long-term employees see lower wages, and then wages rise again after a while. The aim of salary transparency is to address such imbalances, encouraging employers to refine their salary structures. If new hires earn more than those training them, it can cause dissatisfaction.
Anna Carlsson: It was easier when salaries weren’t openly discussed.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly.
Emira Blomberg: But won’t it ultimately make things easier? No manager enjoys salary discussions.
Daniel Edenholm: Indeed.
Emira Blomberg: Performance evaluation is tricky because there aren’t clear metrics. Faster work doesn’t always mean better quality.
Daniel Edenholm: Performance is a subjective assessment, while results are measurable. Employers need clear salary criteria—defining measurable outcomes rather than relying on subjective judgment. With greater transparency, managers will have to justify salary decisions.
Anna Carlsson: When does this take effect?
Daniel Edenholm: June 1, 2026.
Anna Carlsson: That’s soon! Just a year and a half away.
Daniel Edenholm: Yes.
Anna Carlsson: And what about unions?
Daniel Edenholm: Unions already have some insight through pay surveys, but the new regulations expand their role. They will now negotiate which factors justify wage differences. If an employer attributes a pay gap to past managerial experience, for example, they must discuss this with unions to determine if it's a valid reason.
Anna Carlsson: What does a pay survey actually impact?
Daniel Edenholm: A pay survey is an annual self-check to ensure the salary model is applied systematically. Most employers already conduct them, often identifying and correcting discrepancies.
Large employers (over 100 employees) must report pay gaps every three years, while those with over 250 employees must report them annually. These reports will be made public, allowing comparisons between employers—something that could be quite revealing.
Anna Carlsson: I'm coming back to this sustainability directive, which, by the time we release this episode, will have come into effect.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly, yes.
Anna Carlsson: It also involves a lot of reporting. We’re not going to talk about that now, but I’m thinking that it’s all connected in some way. Or are they connected? What would you say?
Daniel Edenholm: Well, of course. In CSR, there are several articles, or paragraphs, that regulate how employers manage their employees and ensure fair working conditions. And within that, there are several sections concerning wages and salary transparency. You are required to report the same average and median salary differences in CSR as you do under the regulations we’re discussing now.
However, you could say that the transparency directive and the anti-discrimination law go much further. In CSR, you don’t have job architecture. There’s no requirement to conduct job evaluations or assess work of equal value. The requirement to have a clear and well-defined salary model exists in the anti-discrimination law now. What has been established in the anti-discrimination law based on these requirements can be directly applied in CSR.
Anna Carlsson: It comes from the same source. It has the same intention—that we should be a sustainable continent. We aim for the Green Deal, to be the most sustainable continent by 2050, in terms of energy, nature, and individuals. And then there’s also this whole aspect of having to publish and describe information.
Daniel Edenholm: This is actually a larger trend than just Europe. In the U.S., most states already have pay transparency incorporated into their regulations, and some are even looking closely at how the European framework is structured. The requirement to include salary ranges in job postings is already implemented in most states. This exists in Australia and Asia as well.
Perhaps what makes Europe unique is that it chose to implement all methods—salary mapping, transparency in wage setting, and pay gap reporting.
Emira Blomberg: But why haven’t we done this before? Because, as you mentioned, if you look at job postings on international platforms, you often find listings outside of Sweden where salary information is clearly stated. I also remember when I was posting job ads. When doing it through the employment agency, there was a field for salary, but we would always write something like "as per agreement" to avoid disclosing it. There were various reasons for not wanting to reveal that information.
Why have we been so secretive about salaries?
Daniel Edenholm: There are three things we prefer not to talk about in Sweden: our religious beliefs, our political affiliation, and our salary.
Anna Carlsson: And whether we’re union members.
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, union membership probably ties into that as well. I think it comes down to a sense of personal privacy and not wanting to share that information. And when it comes to salary, it’s largely about comparisons—people compare themselves to others.
Anna Carlsson: And then you become afraid of bragging or feeling inferior. There's a lot of that when you don’t talk about it.
Daniel Edenholm: If you listen to surveys among young people, it's actually much more common now to talk about salaries. That is, it’s more accepted to talk about grades in school or salary.
Emira Blomberg: Yes, exactly. I find it fascinating why we’re so afraid of it since it's also public information. I’ve also sat and called... Is it the Tax Agency?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, you can get information from the Tax Agency.
Emira Blomberg: Yes, exactly. To find out a person’s taxable income, because last year when I was recruiting, I had reason to suspect that the person might not be entirely truthful about what they were currently earning. And so, you want to get a better position in negotiations. It's a huge game of cat and mouse. It's still public information. I think it’s interesting that it’s still so hushed up.
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, absolutely. I think it's the feeling of comparison and the fear of being treated unfairly.
Anna Carlsson: Maybe we don’t want to know about it? Or do we?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, maybe we do, but we don’t want to share it.
Anna Carlsson: No.
Daniel Edenholm: And it’s very common for people to leave a salary discussion with their boss without actually revealing what was said in the meeting.
Anna Carlsson: But if we think about it, are there winners and losers in this?
Daniel Edenholm: Good question. I think employees will be the winners in this. They’ll get entirely new information they didn’t have before. I also think employers can be winners because transparency builds trust. If we talk about trust-based leadership and how we want to build our cultures, then I think salary transparency is also valuable. However, there are a number of obstacles to overcome. If you haven’t built your salary model structure, you might not have a job architecture, and you don’t have salary criteria in place. You haven’t created "this is how we work and conduct market analyses," then you’ll need to build that, as it's a prerequisite for being able to communicate this with employees.
Emira Blomberg: So, this is like the platform, Sysarb’s platform. Is it mainly for salary mapping? Or are there other types of benefits involved as well? It's also very relevant now to offer benefits like diversity and inclusion, where maybe not everyone celebrates Christmas, but has other holidays. How do you address these things, and what freedoms are available? Is that part of it?
Daniel Edenholm: It's about benefits that carry economic weight.
Anna Carlsson: That’s actually what I was thinking about and forgot to ask. What counts as salary?
Daniel Edenholm: It's the compensation you receive from your employer, including basic salary, fixed cash salary, and salary supplements. Then we move on to collective agreement-based compensation for working outside regular hours, overtime pay, and so on. Finally, we come down to what benefits are provided at the workplace.
Anna Carlsson: Gym membership?
Daniel Edenholm: Health benefits? Absolutely. If one person gets health benefits and another doesn’t, you must analyze why there’s a discrepancy. You asked what I actually do. Well, Sysarb’s platform really works with three key steps. The first is to structure data. You input salary data and structure it, which involves creating a job architecture or building one and working with job evaluation so that we know what should be compared in the analysis. Our second step, when guiding our clients, is to analyze data. How does it look? Do we have salary differences between men and women doing the same work or equivalent work? Then the system helps create the basis for maybe even identifying which individuals in a group need further analysis. There are various methods to conduct such an analysis and explain salary discrepancies. The third step in our guidance is involving others. The first step here is to involve managers so they can be informed. What does it look like in my group? What does the salary statistics look like so they can communicate with their employees? The biggest challenge right now is equipping managers with knowledge and tools so they can explain salary setting in their group. It could very well be that a manager is new and inherits a salary structure they don’t agree with. How will the manager work over the next few years to change an inherited, possibly incorrect, salary structure?
Anna Carlsson: Then I’m very curious, when implementing HR systems...
Daniel Edenholm: Yes.
Anna Carlsson: One of the things I’ve seen in most systems is the need for a job architecture to build up from there. But are these components included in HR systems?
Daniel Edenholm: There are fields.
Anna Carlsson: There are fields.
Daniel Edenholm: To input a job architecture.
Anna Carlsson: Yes.
Daniel Edenholm: But there’s no system support to actually build it or create the structure. That’s usually not there. So in our case, we have integrations with several HR systems so that you can build it with us and then transfer the data. My term would be compensation & benefits, and they’re usually the ones who work to build these structures. These HR systems present the data, but it’s often done in Excel.
Anna Carlsson: Yes, exactly. I’ve often been asked if I know any good HR systems that also have a good C&B tool, and it’s not really the case.
Daniel Edenholm: It’s difficult.
Anna Carlsson: Because it’s not easy to pull off. These systems, it has to do with how they're built. I mean, if someone from your company came and also built an HR system, maybe it could work?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, exactly.
Daniel Edenholm: I’ve been asked that many times, but we’ve concluded that it’s better to focus on what we do really, really well. There are many HR systems out there.
Anna Carlsson: It’s the same thing in the recruitment world with ATS systems and so on. Can’t they also do this? But there are some areas that are more complex than others, which are difficult for a bigger system to really handle and stay ahead in. And salary structures, salary mapping, and salary architecture are one of those areas.
Emira Blomberg: But how does it work for you? You’re an international company too. I’ve heard that it’s so difficult to scale internationally because salary pieces differ so much.
Daniel Edenholm: What was the question?
Anna Carlsson: How do you think about it? Because you're also on an international journey. Do you see international differences? Is it difficult to scale when it comes to having the same system?
Daniel Edenholm: We definitely have 20 years or nearly 25 years of experience working with salary mapping in Sweden, which other European countries don’t have. So when we come and talk about equal and equivalent work, it’s second nature to us. And we actually have to educate a lot about "this is how we use these terms in Sweden." It’s a journey for us to go international. But at the same time, we have the advantage of having done this in Sweden for 25 years, and the requirements for salary mapping in the directive are very similar to the Swedish regulations. So, we see it as an advantage that we know how to approach it. But of course, we encounter very different traditions. In Sweden, we have individual salary setting as part of the work task, and then we work with individual salaries. In several European countries, in order to get a salary adjustment, you need to be promoted. Yes, exactly, and then the work task changes. You change roles and become senior, or take another career path. So, you don't have the same opportunities to influence your salary individually unless you're promoted. How does that affect salary mapping?
Emira Blomberg: But isn’t it still the case in Sweden? When you really have the chance to increase your salary, you have to change position?
Daniel Edenholm: That’s the biggest leap you take. Yes, then it’s beneficial if there’s an employer who values the move from level three to level four the same way as if they were hiring externally. This also relates to the fact that if we have employees who follow an internal career path, we need to ensure that we can retain them or reward them in the same way as if we were recruiting externally.
Emira Blomberg: Exactly, like people also say, "No, we go internal because it’s so expensive to recruit externally."
Anna Carlsson: But now we have to look at it a different way. Because if we look at all the recent reports on the gap between the jobs available and the skills people have, it’s only getting harder. The more we have to focus on re-skilling and up-skilling internally. But if it’s going to work, you have to give people a chance to move forward. You can’t have the old rules that say, "No, internally you can’t, or you’ll lose out." This shift has to happen now.
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, the focus should be on getting the right person in the right place in the salary structure, based on their knowledge and skills.
Emira Blomberg: This is so interesting because I think, regarding your question, Anna, about who the winners are and so on. I think this is the best thing to happen since sliced bread. Just because it will spill over into so many other processes. Of course, it’s about equality and closing the pay gap and transparency, but I see the biggest benefit is that it will spill over into other processes that we can’t address because this wasn’t in place.
Daniel Edenholm: I’m a member of something called the Fair Pay Innovation Lab. We review employers who want to become certified. We’re a certification body. One of the key messages from this organization is that when you open your eyes to gender equality and inequalities, it spills over into many other inequalities as well. For instance, if you ask whether we look at other issues in parallel, no, the directive doesn’t include vacations or those issues. But when you start working to create more equal pay, you may want to dig deeper and understand what actually affects salary setting. You’ll end up uncovering other injustices that you address and start working with. I think there’s a strong point here – that there are many winners, even beyond the gender perspective. You create structure, order, and fairness, and you want to be a good employer. We want to be a fair employer.
Anna Carlsson: But back to this, you have a tool that can be useful, especially since now when we’re forced to do this, we have to structure it. And that’s useful too. If you don’t have
Anna Carlsson: Yes, because then you get to see what you’ve done.
Daniel Edenholm: It was even the case that from the EU there was a clear push that there has to be a cost if you make a mistake. I mean, Sweden also has to introduce this type of practice in its courts.
Anna Carlsson: That’s what I was actually thinking about. Is there any punishment if you deviate? If you don't do this, or...?
Daniel Edenholm: There are a number of new sanctions.
Anna Carlsson: Sanction fees.
Anna Carlsson: They’re called sanction fees, exactly. There are more than just fines if you don’t comply. If the boss asks, "What’s your salary today?" you can sue the boss, and then there would be a fine. If the employer doesn’t submit their salary gap report, it could lead to a fine of up to half a million. If the employer doesn’t do a salary survey, they could face a fine. It could be up to 2 million and even more. And the last one, which we might see more of, is the economic compensation in cases of discrimination, which goes to the discriminated party.
Anna Carlsson: But then we come to the question. Now, let’s come up with a solution. How do we solve this? How should we work with this issue? Those who are listening, as an employee, you might think, "Finally, I get some insight," and then work with compensation & benefits. But we don’t have anyone working with compensation & benefits because they’re so hard to find. What should we do?
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, the first step is to, if I were to call it that, structure a salary model. I would say that’s step one. Think about, do we have a salary policy? Yes, maybe you do, hopefully. Then read it. What does it say? Often it will say that the salary should be individual and differentiated. That’s what it usually says. What does that mean? So that we can explain to our employees how we set salaries.
Emira Blomberg: It says "by agreement."
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly, by agreement. So, start thinking about that. These are our guiding documents. Maybe a collective agreement? Maybe a salary policy? And how do we communicate this to our employees? No, we can’t, but then we need to create structure, and then I talk about MIA. Work, individual, and market. If I turn it around now? Start by creating a job architecture or conduct a job evaluation. Explain what tasks you have. How do we set individual salaries? What does the market look like? That’s step one, and that should be done now.
Anna Carlsson: That’s probably why there are so many webinars and podcasts.
Daniel Edenholm: It could be for that reason.
Anna Carlsson: We felt the need to bring this up, of course.
Daniel Edenholm: Step two. Then, once we have a salary model, structure, and clarity on the data, we need to analyze it. What do the salary differences look like? Can they be justified or are they unjustified? Unjustified salary. They need to create a plan to adjust. And step three is to involve. Make sure that employees, or we start with the managers.
Anna Carlsson: It must be the managers you mean.
Daniel Edenholm: Yes, make sure the managers are involved in this process. Give them training and let them be part of analyzing salary differences. Maybe that would be part of the solution.
Anna Carlsson: That they get to sit together and discuss. What does it look like for me? Is this a salary difference? What does it mean, and why has it happened this way? Do we want it to be like this? I mean, all those questions.
Emira Blomberg: This is also so interesting because the managers are usually employees too. So, who is actually held responsible? It gets, or what should I say, it becomes so abstract when we talk about the employer.
Daniel Edenholm: Ultimately, it’s the CEO who is responsible. And then, if you have a large organization, you have a bunch of managers and HR and compensation & benefits. But of course, the task to implement the work often falls to HR or compensation & benefits.
Emira Blomberg: Everyone reporting to the CEO should have a meeting with the CEO and look at each other’s salaries.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly. Yes, that would be an interesting meeting.
Anna Carlsson: Well, thank you for that! Very clear structure on how to work through this. Are there any other pieces of advice you would like to share?
Daniel Edenholm: I like when HR works together with communication on this issue, meaning creating a communication plan. This could really become a headline-maker. That is, as an employer, you should be aware of the language you use. Make sure that this is the message you want to convey. Yes, that’s what I’d say. And in that, communication is key. You need to work with specialists in that area. What other good tips do I have? I think the biggest challenge in all this work will be on the managers.
Anna Carlsson: So, that’s something to keep in mind. All those people we’ve mentioned now, those who will be affected. The biggest job will be the managers' role in all of this. And they are already quite exposed generally with everything that needs to be done in our Swedish model. So, the question is, how will this work? Do we need more people in HR to support? There are many unemployed former HR students who could help with this.
Daniel Edenholm: In the preparatory work, most of it falls to HR. Compensation & benefits. To create structure, order, and clarity when it’s time to implement. When we approach the next year, you have about six months to have the conversation with your employees, with the new type of information they will have access to. In the coming autumn, you should prepare the managers for a new way of doing things.
Anna Carlsson: A big change journey, like all such projects.
Emira Blomberg: Exactly, now they’ve also been given a timeline, I think, for the listeners. A change journey is really a big change project and includes all the elements of a successful change model. Because there is a purpose. Why are we doing this? If you say... no one wants unequal salaries. But clearly, that hasn’t been enough, so there’s this sense of urgency needed to make something really happen. And then it has to be easy to do the right thing. And I think that’s where you come in. But also, taking Assesio’s model here, it should feel like there are consequences if you don’t do what you’re supposed to. But I think it’s easy to do the right thing if everything else is in place.
Daniel Edenholm: Exactly.
Emira Blomberg: But think about it, now HR has to manage this, along with so many other things in parallel. And then all the stress comes in. How do we also use AI? There are so many things. You need to have an HR manager or director, or whatever it may be, who is clear with their priorities and resource allocation. They must be a great project manager in all the work that’s going on.
Anna Carlsson: Is there anything else? Anything else you want to add?
Daniel Edenholm: Well, yes, of course. In the past year, I’ve encountered multinational companies that are still working with Excel. And what all these companies are now realizing is that with this new directive, it’s no longer enough for just a few individuals to handle the issue. It becomes an issue for the whole organization, and then platforms are needed. That’s one reason why we’re seeing the growth we are right now.
Anna Carlsson: Yes, exactly. I think we talked about this before we started. I’ve looked at statistics on which companies are growing the most, and it’s you and PIR or whatever they’re called who have these.
Daniel Edenholm: Industry colleagues.
Anna Carlsson: Yes, exactly, that this is so important. It makes it much easier to do the right thing with the right tools.
Daniel Edenholm: A clear order and clarity on data makes it easier to do the right thing.
Anna Carlsson: Thank you so much, Daniel, for coming here!
Daniel Edenholm: It was fun to be a guest!
Anna Carlsson: Great fun! And thank you, Emira, as always. Yes, that was fun!
