Note: This episode is in Swedish. A translated transcript is available below.
How will the future of work look? Is the office truly the center of knowledge work, or is it time to rethink? Together, we explore the changes companies must navigate to remain competitive and sustainable.
In this thought-provoking episode of the HR Digitalization Podcast, we meet Henrik Järleskog, Head of Future Work at Sodexo, who shares insights on how digitalization, AI, and flexible work models are reshaping the workplace. The discussion focuses on two major megatrends: companies achieving more with fewer people and the rise of distributed work. The workplace of the future is no longer confined to the office—work happens everywhere, from cafés to coworking spaces.
A key theme is how companies can manage the transition to flexible work models. The conversation also highlights the importance of building culture and fostering a sense of belonging, regardless of the chosen work model. Additionally, it delves into challenges such as fairness, equity, and generational differences in perceptions of the workplace's role.
The discussion takes a deeper look at technology’s role, particularly AI’s potential to enhance productivity and creativity. Henrik shares his personal experience using AI assistants to streamline his work and free up time for strategic thinking.
This episode is an inspiring guide for leaders and HR professionals looking to stay ahead in the on going transformation of work.
Transcription:
Anna Carlsson: In November, the 2024 trend episode was released. I spoke with Emira about everything from mega trends to HR focus areas for 2025. What we did not talk much about was the design of the workplace, but we will address that in today’s episode with Henrik Järleskog, Head of Future of Work at Sodexo. Henrik has the incredible privilege of dedicating all his time to helping Sodexo’s clients transition into the future, where our ways of working will no longer be as they were.
Henrik starts by expressing his amazement thatwe still believe knowledge work is done in offices. It is not. When I wrote this intro, I was sitting in a café. Work happens everywhere.
But now, we have reached a point where we can rely on data. What works best? What is Fortune 500 companies doing? Is it a return to the office, structured hybrid models, or full flexibility? And then there are all our AI tools, how will they influence us? Henrik has an entire team of AI assistants supporting him with various tasks. Toward the end, we discuss two important questions: Who determines and manages the future workplace, and how can one succeed? Continuing to work in traditional ways is not a recipe for success.
Anna Carlsson: Welcome to the HR Digitalization Podcast, Henrik!
Henrik Järleskog: Thank you! Very glad to be here.
Anna Carlsson: Today, we are interviewing you two because Emira is here too.
Emira Blomberg: Hi, hi!
Henrik Järleskog: Hi!
Anna Carlsson: It is the first time we are doing an interview together. This will be exciting.
Emira Blomberg: Yes, we will take turns leading.
Anna Carlsson: Yes, we have slightly different perspectives and backgrounds. But I would like to start by saying that in November, the HR and Tech 2024 trend report was released, with my market insights and forecasts. One area we did not delve in to in that episode, which greatly impacts HR and business in 2030, is how we’ll have fewer people. We will need to better understand what our employees require to perform optimally and how this will affect the workplace. I am so glad we will likely cover that with you today.
Henrik Järleskog: I hope so too. It is an incredibly exciting and rapidly evolving area.
Anna Carlsson: Who are you, Henrik?
Henrik Järleskog: My name is Henrik Järleskog, and I am Head of Future Work at Sodexo Europe. I joined Sodexo in 2018 to drive transformation, enhance growth, improve margins, and increase innovation. Over the past four years, I have served as a strategy leader in Europe, navigating through three major crises: the pandemic, the energy crisis, and inflation. Now, in my new role, I advise companies on the future of work, digitalization, and creating excellent workplace experiences. Sometimes, I sit as part of management teams, facilitating and advising.
Anna Carlsson: Is this within your own organization?
Henrik Järleskog: No, this is what is exciting. Many have Future Work roles internally, but I am one of the first with an externally focused role. For instance, with clients like Tetra Pak, AstraZeneca, or Microsoft, I help shape their future workplace and working strategies.
Anna Carlsson: So, is this a value-added service Sodexo provides to external companies?
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly. It is a significant investment from Sodexo, believing and knowing that the more we understand the workplace and work-life development, the more relevant we become. Sodexo is the 19th largest company in the world, the most sustainable food company globally, and one of the largest integration drivers. We operate in many locations and workplaces, impacting between 80 to 100 million people daily. So, we hold some of the keys to making every day a bit better.
Anna Carlsson: That is a very clever initiative—to offer this type of service to external companies. Especially given what we discussed while planning this episode about how COVID struck and how you quickly realized this would have along-term impact, not just short-term. Everything hybrid and digital. It is very strategically smart. Speaking of how we manage disruptive, large-scale events, pivoting to offer this kind of advice and support is very impressive.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, absolutely. My former boss, the CEO of Europe, told me four years ago, “Henrik, our industry will fundamentally change due to the pandemic. No one knows exactly how, but we know it will change, and understanding companies’ future needs and organizational strategies will be key to understanding our market. I want you to take responsibility for this, Henrik—keep your finger on the pulse, educate us, educate yourself, conduct surveys, write white papers, and be visible in webinars to lead this transformation.” This was about becoming a leader in workplace and work-life development, and I agree—it is strategically vital to own a problem to guide a market.
Anna Carlsson: It is also interesting to have a role like that. Our roles are similar, with the big difference that I don’t have a monthly salary.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, yes, that can happen.
Anna Carlsson: And no large organization behind me. But this idea of keeping a finger on the pulse and learning from conversations with others is very valuable. To be able to influence and support organizations is equally exciting.
Henrik Järleskog: Absolutely, it is a fascinating area. Just like HR is crucial for improving as many lives as possible, the Future Work domain is intertwined with careers, which form such a significant part of our lives. Both areas overlapand reinforce each other.
Anna Carlsson: Yes, and where do we draw the line? Where does HR’s responsibility end in this context? Should HR take on this area? We will return to this after exploring it more. But first, looking forward, what do you fore see? Do you think digitalization, AI, and sustainability will shape the workplace and the concept of work in the future?
Henrik Järleskog: Right, let us tackle that small question! I would like to start by saying it is fascinating how many people still believe that the office’s primary role is routine work. It is quite mind-blowing that many hold this belief, even though work happens everywhere—on the bus, at the gym, at home, or at coworking spaces. But this shift is gradual. To understand this topic better, we need a broader, more holistic perspective. Two significant structural changes are currently reshaping society, companies, offices, and work methods.
The first is that companies are delivering much more with fewer people. For instance, tech companies have laid off tens of thousands of employees recently, even though they are in a boom period. At the same time, they are recruiting, reskilling, and upskilling. This trend is closely linked to HR’s leadership work. Companies are achieving greater results with fewer people. That is the first megatrend.
The second is distributed work. This shift did not start with the pandemic—it began 10–15 years ago when many large companies established new headquarters in various countries. The realization was that access to talent and market opportunities globally is crucial. Distributed work means you can collaborate with a colleague in Brazil or Singapore from your office. It is not about the debate on working from home, the bedroom, or a ski resort—it is about global collaboration. These two massive trends are the real game-changers. Debating whether employees should work from home two or three days a week is a distraction.
Anna Carlsson: I must point out that I have worked in an organization where they were working anytime, anywhere was standard. At IBM, as a tech company, we operated across borders, continents, and time zones. It made no sense to require people to be in an office. Instead, it was about organizing within teams. Those who were ready for this shift fared much better during the pandemic.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, distributed work has been a reality for many organizations for years. I have also experienced it; I have been working for 20 years now,and even back in 2004, we relied heavily on teleconferences. But there are still challenges for companies accustomed to this model.
Emira Blomberg: You mentioned irrelevant debates, like whether to work two or three days in the office. Could this also become a class issue? For instance, When I used to pick up my kids from preschool, and having flexible hours felt like a privilege. But some people work in roles where physical presence is mandatory,like in retail. In organizations with diverse roles, doesn’t this created a conflict between those bound to the workplace and those with flexibility?
Henrik Järleskog: That is a hugely important and multifaceted issue. You are absolutely right; there’s an inherent unfairness for those who don’t have flexibility. Addressing this might require larger policy changes, like offering flexibility in working hours instead. For instance, implementing a four-day work week could be a solution. There is also a demographic aspect—recent graduates, for example, often prefer being in the office to learn and build relationships. Meanwhile, parents may prioritize both time and location flexibility. The older generation may favor the office due to habit. While these trends exist, we shouldnot generalize too much.
Anna Carlsson: But we must generalize to some extent. Otherwise, how can we address broader trends and behaviors?
Henrik Järleskog: True. However, the alternative is not letting individuals decide everything for themselves—that would create chaos. Team dynamics and organizational needs must also be considered. It is a significant challenge.
Anna Carlsson: Looking 20 years ahead, do you think organizations will be forced toembrace extreme flexibility due to ongoing changes? What is in your crystal ball?
Henrik Järleskog: I wish I had a crystal ball! But I do have extensive data from global sources. Currently, the largest database tracking organizational models,called Flex index, includes over 9,000 companies and 120 million employees worldwide. According to this database, one-third of organizations operate full-time in the office, while two-thirds have adopted some form of flexible, model—either structured hybrid or full flexibility. Full-time office work is declining thefastest, while structured hybrid models are growing rapidly. Full-time work is decliningthe fastest, while structured hybrid models are growing rapidly. Fully flexible setups remain stable. This is eye-opening for many because it does not align with media narratives about companies forcing employees back to their offices.
Anna Carlsson: When this became a hot topic, it was during the pandemic, even though it had been brewing for a while. I worked at Folksam when they implemented an office design tailored to specific tasks. What is that called again?
Henrik Järleskog: Do you mean activity-based?
Anna Carlsson: Activity-based! Yes, Folksam was one of the first companies to adopt this concept, with very cool office spaces. Making such a significant change in a large building was impressive. Changes were happening before the pandemic, but the pandemic gave everything an extra push. I remember Spotify was quick to declare they would never return to the office, while Mentimeter, another Swedish SaS company, countered by saying, “We’ll absolutely be office-first.”Who was right?
Henrik Järleskog: I would say no one is entirely right. Every organization finds amodel that suits them. There is no universal blueprint. However, the concept of top-down policies is fading. If a large company suddenly mandates three days inthe office for everyone, regardless of role, they will likely realize this approach isn’t effective. Organizations are maturing and moving toward team-based agreements, where teams decide what works best for them, rather than following decrees from top management.
Emira Blomberg: That makes sense. But is there truth to the idea that it is easier to build a strong company culture if everyone is physically present?
Henrik Järleskog: Not necessarily. Building culture is not inherently easier just because people are in the same place—it’s about intentionality. If you actively invest time, money, and effort into fostering culture, it will thrive, whether you are fully in-office, hybrid, or rarely on-site. This is an excellent segue into discussing challenges. Full-time office companies invest heavily increasing what they call “magnetic offices”—spaces that are better than another environment for work. Structured hybrid organizations face frustrations like employees coming into the office only to sit in digital meetings all day, wondering why they bothered to show up.
Anna Carlsson: Or the office is not designed for these needs, and there are not enough meeting rooms.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly, or the opposite— under utilized space depending on when people choose to come in. Many structured hybrid companies are currently “rightsizing,” realizing their office utilization rates are very low. They are reducing space to create better workplace experiences.
Anna Carlsson: But then chaos will apear when everyone comes in on the same day unless tools are in place to plan for this.
Henrik Järleskog: Coordinating that is no easy task, especially since many prefer longer weekends and working from home on Mondays and Fridays. This creates the infamous “Wednesday peak” when everyone comes in. It is a complex issue. Fully flexible companies, however, have spent the last 4–5 years learning to work “digital-first.”They have figured out how to communicate and build culture in this setup. Many have adopted “key events,” where employees gather for meaningful in-person meetings focused on strategy, growth, problem-solving, or workshops.
Anna Carlsson: Are these events held in person?
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, physically.
Anna Carlsson: Event companies must be seeing a boom, then.
Henrik Järleskog: Absolutely. Meetings are now booming, as documented by Nick Bloomat Stanford University. These are typically one-day meetings—not the traditional 2–3-day corporate conferences—but highly effective, enjoyable gatherings. The approach to culture-building varies depending on the model chosen, but the key is to decide to prioritize it. Culture does not develop automatically.
Anna Carlsson: My impression is that many leaders lack the skills to build culture in new ways. They are accustomed to traditional methods and must learn to adapt. Often, they are not the youngest or most flexible in terms of mindset,which makes it harder to embrace new approaches like digital team building. Butit is a skill that must be developed.
Henrik Järleskog: Absolutely. This reminds me of the classic “water cooler moment” discussion. Have you heard of it?
Anna Carlsson: Yes, it is a classic. Emira, are you familiar with it?
Emira Blomberg: I have heard of it, but maybe you should refresh my memory—and the listeners’ as well.
Henrik Järleskog: The “water cooler moment” is often cited in arguments about workplace culture. It refers to those spontaneous interactions at the watercooler or coffee machine, where employees build relationships and exchange ideas. Some believe these moments are crucial to a strong company culture. This idea has been studied extensively, and if you rely solely on these moments for culture-building, you are likely not investing enough in your culture overall.
Anna Carlsson: So, it assumes everyone is naturally sociable and enjoys small talk?
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly, and that is an interesting perspective.
Anna Carlsson: As a consultant, I developed the skill of “elevator talk” or Small talkon the way to a meeting room. I am not naturally good at small talk and prefer getting straight to the point. But I had to practice making small talk during those short walks. Will we lose this skill and become entirely task-oriented?
Henrik Järleskog: Small talk is essential for strengthening relationships, especially with colleagues you do not see often. Interestingly, research shows that while digital meetings have strengthened relationships with close colleagues, they have weakened connections with those you rarely interact with. This is a point of attention for organizations. Recent technologies are emerging to facilitate social interaction in distributed teams, including virtual spaces where colleagues can spend time together and connect.
Anna Carlsson: I have seen tools that create open virtual spaces where team members can work alongside each other and spontaneously connect. These platforms often include prompts to help spark conversations. There is no shortage of ideas, but leadership needs to invest in and embrace these solutions.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes and dare to experiment.
Anna Carlsson: Exactly—dare to try.
Henrik Järleskog: Leaders need to dare to experiment and invest in such solutions.There are exciting Swedish companies developing these models, as well as others globally. It is worth keeping an eye on. To answer your earlier question, I do not think small talk or informal conversations will disappear; they may simply occur more often in written or digital forms.
Anna Carlsson: We had some small talk before we started recording today, which felt nice. When I facilitate team networking meetings, I set a side 15 minutes before hand for participants to join early and chat in small breakout groups. Itis a stolen idea, but it works well. You have to rethink and adapt to new ways of working.
Henrik Järleskog: Absolutely. It is better to steal that time from the end of the meeting so you can include a quarter-hour for socializing.
Anna Carlsson: Smart.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: We have talked a lot about office-based roles, but how does this work for organizations with diverse roles? At Sodexo, for example, many employees work in cleaning or kitchen services. How do you balance this? Or is it not really an issue because those roles inherently require physical presence? Does it create inequalities or class divides?
Henrik Järleskog: That is a very challenging question. Among Sodexo’s 430 thousende employees, over 90% are bound to their workplace. So, it is not realistic to apply the same model across the board. Different jobs, companies,and industries have varying degrees of location dependency. I believe these factors will increasingly influence career choices. People will start thinking earlier about what lifestyle they want and choose jobs accordingly. For example, being a doctor has always been a highly competitive and demanding profession with little location flexibility, yet it remains a vital and popular career choice. The same goes for nurses and fire fighters—jobs with limited flexibility but significant importance.
Emira Blomberg: As a leader or manager, one hears comments like, “It’s important for the manager to be present because they’re a strong cultural carrier and need to set an example.” What are your thoughts on that?
Henrik Järleskog: I would not agree with that sentiment. Many managers believe it is true, particularly in places like Stockholm, where the perception is common. However, culture-building should happen at the organizational level, involving the entire team’s input and preferred ways of working. Otherwise, leaders risk going astray. Let me quiz you on this topic. Consider the Fortune500 companies—the largest and most successful globally. How do you think they organize their work models? What is the distribution between full-time office, structured hybrid, and fully flexible setups?
Anna Carlsson: I always imagine large organizations like Fortune 500 companies operating like bird flocks, where leadership shifts and everyone works together dynamically. Structured hybrid seems like the dominant approach, offering flexibility to accommodate diverse needs across cultures, roles, and regions.
Henrik Järleskog: That is correct. But how dominant?
Anna Carlsson: Maybe 30%?
Henrik Järleskog: What about you, Emira?
Emira Blomberg: I would say closer to 10%.
Henrik Järleskog: Only 4% of Fortune 500 companies operate full-time in the office—thatis roughly 20 companies.
Anna Carlsson: So, not many.
Henrik Järleskog: No, and it is fascinating. A study by Henrik Olaf Lind analyzed these companies, showing that 86% follow structured hybrid models, while 10% are fully flexible. This means it is more than twice as common to be fully flexible than to be full-time in the office.
Emira Blomberg: But don’t these companies struggle with utilization issues? Theymust have massive office spaces that are underused.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, many are actively addressing this. Some clients we work with aim to reduce their office space by up to 50%. On average, companies reduce their space by about 17% when renegotiating leases. The trend is towards smaller, more efficient workplaces as remote work grows. It is something leaders, especially in Sweden, should educate themselves on. The idea that companies are returning to the office is not the prevailing model.
Anna Carlsson: This is very insightful.
Emira Blomberg: Absolutely. It is also worth noting from your presentation that 74% of companies have changed their workplace policies multiple times since 2020. Organizations should not rush to find a one-size-fits-all solution but instead view this as an experimental process.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly. Flexibility is an evolving concept, and finding the rightmodel involves trial and error. Amazon, for instance, recently announced are turn-to-office policy, sparking backlash within their organization. Over 70% of employees reported they were considering changing employees due to the decision.
Anna Carlsson: That resonates with what I have heard. Some companies mandate office returns, but employees simply do not comply.
Henrik Järleskog: This is a widespread challenge. Another critical point I would like to highlight is the difference between synchronous and asynchronous work. It is a concept many people are unfamiliar with. Traditional office-based work is typically synchronous—employees work at the same time and often in the same location. Hybrid companies often adopt a mix of in-person and virtual meetings, still synchronous but more flexible. Fully flexible companies, however, excel asynchronous work. They use tools and processes that allow employees to collaborate and complete tasks independently of each other’s schedules.
Emira Blomberg: This ties back to understanding the purpose behind meetings. How often do we receive invites without knowing the purpose? When addressing this,we realize some meetings do not even need to happen. If a meeting’s purpose is interactive collaboration, it is frustrating if participants do not show up physically.
Anna Carlsson: That is an example of synchronous work at its best.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: But it can also be done digitally with proper planning.
Henrik Järleskog: How many people do you know in traditional hybrid companies whose calendars are packed with meetings all day, every day?
Anna Carlsson: Microsoft’s analysis during the pandemic showed a sharp increase in the number of meetings, which has remained high. We have not learned to go back or adopt asynchronous methods. For example, when we prepared for this episode, we worked asynchronously—each of us contributed to the script in our own time. That is classic asynchronous work.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly.
Anna Carlsson: A textbook example of asynchronous work.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, meeting numbers have exploded because it is easier to schedule digital meetings. However, we still work synchronously, jumping from one meeting to another without breaks.
Anna Carlsson: Let us shift to how AI can help make work smarter. You have mentioned having an AI team that works with you. Can you elaborate?
Henrik Järleskog: Yes. A while back, the AI train was leaving the station, and I did not want to be left behind. I decided to learn how to leverage AI for personal growth and productivity. I took a fantastic course, which I highly recommend. It used the Japanese concept of ikigai—do you know it?
Emira Blomberg: Yes, it is about finding your purpose, illustrated as overlapping circles showing what you enjoy, what you are good at, and what the world needs.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly. The course applied ikigai from an AI perspective, encouraging participants to reflect on what they want to improve—creativity, efficiency, or something else—and then build AI assistants to support those goals. I have personally invested in this, so I now pay for several software-as-a-service tools.
Anna Carlsson: I would love that!
Henrik Järleskog: It has been transformative. I save a lot of time, am more productive, and have more room for creative thinking. For example, my AI ghost writer, Goran, helps me write emails and reports. He uses tools like Grammarly and WriteSonic, adapting the tone to match my brand. Magnus, my AI management and strategy consultant, leverages platforms like ChatGPT and Perplexity to manage complex analyses and create strategies. AI is often betterat strategy work than humans.
Anna Carlsson: Amazing.
Henrik Järleskog: Right? It helps overcome barriers to complex problem-solving quickly. Then there’s Annie, who manages video production and social media content, creating intros, outros, and video clips with sound, text, and visuals. If I have a complex market analysis spanning thirty pages across five reports, Annie synthesizes it into an audio script and video summary. It is incredible.
Anna Carlsson: You are living the future workplace concept, where AI supports individuals to focus on their core strengths and interests. It is a shift where HR can ensure people work on what they love most, like leadership development—while AI handles repetitive tasks.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly. My team also includes Veronica and Kim. Naming them was alot of fun; they are inspired by past colleagues who excelled in specific areas.
Emira Blomberg: That sounds so enjoyable. Naming your AI assistants must have been the highlight!
Henrik Järleskog: Absolutely! They are like heroes from my professional past. If any of them are listening, they might recognize themselves.
Emira Blomberg: I saw your LinkedIn post about your personal transformation, comparing yourself five years ago to now. It was beautifully written, inspiring,and a testament to how technology can reshape one’s life.
Henrik Järleskog: Thank you. That post came from a moment of inspiration. I woke up early on a Saturday, and the words just flowed. It ended up reaching around 75,000 people, resonating with various audiences—from those interested in distributed work to those seeking personal transformation.
Anna Carlsson: You shared an image of a traffic jam in Russia. It perfectly illustrated the stress of your previous consulting life.
Henrik Järleskog: Yes, it was from a solo gig outside Moscow. I was stuck in trafficfor over two hours on my way to a presentation. That kind of stress is not necessary anymore. With modern tools and remote work norms, such scenarios are largely avoidable.
Anna Carlsson: How should organizations and individuals navigate this massive shift? There is a fear that increased productivity through AI might lead to even higher expectations from employers.
Henrik Järleskog: That is a valid concern. A Slack report revealed that over 60% of respondents hesitate to disclose AI usage, fearing it might seem like cheating or reflect poorly on their competence. Yet, fewer than 4% had received formal training. Awareness and education are crucial. AI will not replace jobs, but people using AI will out perform those who do not.
Anna Carlsson: It is also a leadership issue. Some leaders resist change because they want control and lack AI knowledge themselves. It is a turbulent time; a true paradigm shifts for the future of work.
Henrik Järleskog: Absolutely. Data shows that the top-performing Fortune 500 companiesare pre dominantly hybrid or flexible. None of the top ten are fully office-based. This is a clear indication of where success lies. Companies need to be people-centric, gathering feedback, aligning with their purpose, and investing in exceptional workplace experiences.
Anna Carlsson: sustainability is a growing factor, with reporting requirement spushing organizations toward more sustainable environments.
Henrik Järleskog: Exactly. Flexibility is also crucial for inclusiveness, especially for parents and younger workers.
Emira Blomberg: Who should lead this transformation?
Henrik Järleskog: The leadership team, particularly the Chief HR Officer, often takes charge of future work strategies. This requires strong management skills and a clear focus on priorities.
Anna Carlsson: Thank you so much, Henrik. This was incredibly insightful.
Henrik Järleskog: Thank you! It was a pleasure.
Emira Blomberg: Yes, thank you, Henrik! This was fantastic.
